Tantra, Shadow work, Desires & Kinks with Kerry O'Sullivan (Ep 45)

Today’s episode is a powerful, vulnerable, and deeply transformative conversation with Kerry O’Sullivan, a tantric priestess, shamanic witch, best-selling author, and the creator of Goddess Awakening and Conscious Couples.

Kerry is devoted to helping women and couples reconnect to their bodies, awaken pleasure, heal past wounds, and return to the truth of who they are. Her work has been featured in The Times and on Channel 4’s Sex Actually, and she’s known for her radiant presence, compassion, and her ability to hold space for the deepest shadows and the highest ecstasy.

In this episode, we explore:

• Kerry’s journey from a successful corporate career to a full spiritual awakening
• How silence and embodiment uncovered generational trauma
• What it means to be a tantric priestess
• The truth about shame and how it disconnects us from pleasure
• Why numbing is a natural protective response
• How to rebuild intimacy with yourself and your partner
• The real meaning of shadow work
• The power of becoming a cycle breaker in your lineage

This episode is tender, brave, and overflowing with wisdom. Whether you're navigating trauma, craving deeper intimacy, or longing to reconnect to your body, this conversation will meet you where you are.

Settle in this one has heart, depth, and a whole lot of truth.

Visit Kerry's website  https://www.kerryosullivan.co.uk

If you need emergency support for Adults (aged 16+)

• 24/7 Rape and Sexual Abuse Support Line: Call free on 0808 500 2222. This service is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and also offers an online chat function. This service is for people in England and Wales.
• Rape Crisis Scotland: Call 08088 01 03 02.
• Victim Support: Offers a free, 24/7 support line for victims of all types of crime, including sexual abuse. Call 08 08 16 89 111 or use their live chat.
• The Survivors Trust: Offers a free and confidential helpline to any survivor in the UK and Ireland: 0808

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Transcript

 Yes. Welcome to the Holistic Health Sisters podcast of Wellness and Real Life Sisters Hannah Carr and Sarah King from the Holistic Health Collective. In this podcast, we're going to be sharing our passion for, of course, holistic health, but also spirituality, healings, hormone, plant medicine, seasonal living, our love of nature, and our love of community.

So we are gonna invite you to take a pause and take a nice deep breath.

And join us on a path of healing, of self-discovery and self-love, and of stepping into the brilliance of who you really are. This is a podcast for the seekers out there. Those of you who know there's more to life than just surviving or going through the motions, and you want more, more health, wealth, happiness, love, compassion, connection, trust, surrender, and more faith, and you want that for others too.

So we can make this world a better place for us all to go and grab a cup of ceremonial grade cacao and join us as we explore what moves through us, that which is divinely led, so we can all move from fear to walls, more faith. Thank you so much for being here with us today.

  Hey, love. Just before we jump into the episode that's hosted by Sarah King, with very special guest, Kerry O'Sullivan. We wanted to take a moment to take care of you. This episode includes sensitive topics involving sexual content, including sexual abuse and reenactment of those experiences. And we know these themes can be heavy and your wellbeing really does matter to us.

So please listen in whatever way feels safest for you, whether that means pausing, skipping this episode or coming back when you're ready. You deserve to feel really supported and we're holding space for you. If you need resources or you need to reach out, we're including support information in the show notes.

So take gentle care of yourself and over to the episode.

 

 So welcome back to the podcast, and I'm really, truly excited to have a special guest here. I've got Kerry o Sullivan, so I'm gonna introduce her. She's a tantric, priestess, shamanic witch, and embodiment of the Goddess of Divine Truth and Sacred Union. She's a founder of the Goddess Awakening and Conscious Couples.

She's a bestselling author of Surrender to Your Truth, and has been featured on Channel four Sex actually. And in the Times Kerry has touched the lives of thousands of women and couples globally, helping them reconnect with their inner beauty, awaken their sexual energy to heal past wounds, deepen their presence, and step into a life of deep presence, pleasure, and aligned truth.

Her clients describe her as a radiant source of inspiration. Fearless yet calming, wild, yet grounded, playful, yet profoundly compassionate, and carrie's commitment to living and teaching authentic beauty. Creates a safe space for transformation, empowering others to release what no longer serves them and step fully into the lives they desire and deserve.

Welcome, welcome, Kerry. It's amazing to have you here. Oh, thank you. Lovely to be here. I've just got some light questions for you. So we get into, we are gonna be touching in on perhaps some really deep subjects like sensuality, pleasure, shadow work, and we might touch on shame., But just to get into a light energy, what was the last song that you listened to?

Oh, I literally just listened to, I'm feeling good. Darden. Darden. Yeah. I love that song. If I'm in the yeah. If I just really wanna tap, because today's quite a miserable day outside where I am. But if I really wanna tap into the lightness and the sunshine and the Yeah. Like I'm feeling good.

I love that. And I just, yeah, I'll get into the mood. That's literally just what I listen to before I come on. Amazing. So uplifting. Yeah. And what was the last thing that made you laugh or smile? , I think it was again, this morning when I was dancing in front of my mirror behind me and I was just smiling and I had all my hair was all stuck in my earphones and I was like laughing at the fact that I looked really messy, but I felt really sensual and sexy in a messy way.

And I laughed at myself when I was doing that. Sounds like a morning to really connect with yourself. Thank you. Yeah. So for listeners who have no idea what a tantric priest is, can you share what that means In the real world or As I used before we started, I've been watching Harry Potter and like sometimes we're in our magical self, and sometimes we're in our muggle self.

So what does that mean in the muggle world? I'd say a tantric princess is someone who is like truly embodied and connected into all the parts of her, so are able to really move with energy of whatever the whatever comes her way. So to really for tan all about being in the oneness of being really connected to everything.

So you are one, you are connected to everything. And so when you are embodied into the tantric kind of lineage, it's all about moving with that energy of being part of everything and that you are not different or better or worse. You're just, you are at one. And the more you can lean into that, the more you can flow through emotions and flow through everything that comes your way.

And I suppose the priestess part of it is because. I've really gone through an initiation in my awakening, I would say, over the last 7, 8, 9 years. And I've gone from being someone who I would say was quite numb and not really connected to myself, into someone that is so bloody connected that it comes in so beautiful and pleasurable and all of the things, but it's also really deep and cathartic and really raw.

And I think when you become a priestess, you are someone that has journeyed with everything, but you are so embodied and so connected and so grateful and so at one with everything that you're just in gratitude really for even being here in this body right now and journeying whatever life wants to throw at me.

Yeah. Thank you. It sounds quite the journey that you've been on, and maybe you can give us some context of where you've come from work-wise, emotionally, physically, into, and I'm gonna describe you as that when I'm in your energy, you are so playful, you are so open to life. I just get into an energy of excitement when I'm around you.

And it feels like anything is possible. And just to give context as well, it just moved through me. We're in Scorpio season here in, in the Northern Hemisphere in Kent, as we are both located at the mument. And it was just, I had just had a loud download that said get Kerry on the podcast for Scorpio season because some of these themes of pleasure and shadow work, you are like the living embodiment of.

Being with it and touching the darkness and finding the pleasure there. So can you give us a little bit of your story? Yeah, so I the short version is that I always knew I was different. I suppose I've always known I was different. And when I was in the corporate sector, I worked till 15 years in media and I was, I did really well in my career.

I was always striving to be the best and to be noticed and to be seen. And I think a lot of the time I wasn't seen and I didn't feel like I was ever really acknowledged for the power that maybe at the time I didn't know it, but I knew there was something that I wasn't quite connecting to. And then the real kind of pinnacle of when it all changed was when my friend, one of our best friends got diagnosed with cancer and.

And I was like, there was that real realization that how quickly life could change. And I'd already trained in lots of different energy work like reflexology, reiki, Indian head massage, and over the sort of, I used to do that at Christmas for the homeless, and I used to tap into these little parts of me that was a healer and I'd really love it.

And then I would go back to the normal day to day and it felt so far removed from this world. And I was always swayed towards that part and, but always felt oh, I, no, I need to have a good career. I need to keep going in the corporate sector. And so then when my friend Helen was diagnosed with cancer, it really knocked me over.

It was like like I'd had lots of friends young die before that and. It affected me, but not like it did not like Helen did. And I was like, she was my, one of my besties. I was really close and I ended up being really close to her whole journey. And then she passed away and before, like before that, I left my job basically.

It's a long story, but she was very much involved in my decision to leave and I didn't have a job to go to. Everyone thought I was crazy. I'd gone from like applying for these really corporate jobs with loads of money to then going, I'm just gonna leave with nothing to go to. And everyone just thought I was losing the plot and maybe a little part of me thought I was as well, but I also was like, no, I know I need to.

So I left my job and I thought I'll just become, I say just become a reflexologist. And very quickly in I became a reflexologist and I started going around and working in clinics and this sort of thing. But really quickly I realized that I'd be an amazing healer. My clients would fall asleep and it'd be amazing, but then they'd come out the other side of it and I'd wanna share more and there'd be more I wanting to do with them.

But then they would go off and then they would come back a month later and it wasn't fulfilling me. Yeah. And then as I started to spend all that time in silence, what happened was I then started to get, like memories come up from my past of when I'd gone through sexual trauma and I was trying to like squash them down.

It was almost like all of a sudden I'd gone into silence from a really busy life and then all these memories were coming up and I was like, whoa, what's this all about? I tried to squash 'em down and this kind of started as I started to learn to meditate and started to do things for myself, but. It was just so confusing at the time.

And to cut a very long story short from getting all of those memories, I then started to do more energy work, started to work on those, and someone suggested that I went to see a tantric practitioner because of sexual trauma. And I did, and then I was completely blown away by that experience. And then that led me to train in Tantra massage and then it just carried on from there.

Really, all the different things I've trained in as a woman priestess in different tantric work. And shamanic work has all come from that. And your training. Sorry. Yeah so I was basically just gonna say, so the shaman, all of my trainings ever since then, and actually recently I wrote on my website because I really wanted to list out the journey that I've been on for my, like BA honors in marketing at university through to like my recent room priestess training and the stuff I'm doing with G Mate at the mument.

So there's, so I look at it and I go, wow, like just looking at my cv, like how much training I've done since I left my corporate job. It's almost like I, yeah, I was been reborn from that mument and started to step into, I really was, and it continues. Obviously, there's no end point. Wow. It's interesting, isn't it, when you list things out, it gives you that sort of tangible growth of what you've done, but the inner work that you must have done that no one else sees, but from going from that corporate job to be able to.

Base sexual trauma. And just taking a pause there, because we've probably touched on a lot of people's experience here. It's wildly common so sad. And the truth is a lot of people will normalize experience. It happens to everybody. Or perhaps there's, their memories haven't emerged yet. And from my trauma training and understanding is that we will only be faced with what we are ready to handle.

Would you agree with that? Absolutely. And I think, when I first got the initial memories, I definitely was not ready. And there's a chapter in my book called, what Are You Running Away from? And that's literally what I did. I ran from those memories and I couldn't face them.

And then I found in different processes of my life that I've dealt with different aspects of those, of that trauma. And I've said to myself many times, like I'm sure your listeners are gonna maybe resonate with is I've worked on this before, it's this, why is this coming up again?

And, but every time there's always been a different depth to it. And so I know that. So when I think back to my, the beginning of training tantra and having to learn to receive, intimate massage and I remember journeying with this piece around just being able to feel the sensations in my body.

Yeah. Like I was shaking and moving and not trying to, at first remember trying to stop myself from shaking and then realizing that was actually part of the release and the embodiment of what I was feeling. Yeah I definitely agree because at that point I wasn't necessarily ready to do that.

And then in the end I started to surrender to what I was feeling and how I was moving stuff through my body and realizing this is what my body needed to do. But I'd say later on in my journey, I probably had to deal with different emotions that have come through that at first I wasn't ready to face, so much actually around forgiveness for myself, because I actually ignored a lot of what had happened in my life and I decided that I needed to squash it.

Yeah. And so there was a real piece around me forgiving myself, ignoring myself. And for never telling anybody, like I never told anybody about my sexual trauma. I was sexually assaulted when I was 17. I was like, and I decided at all those points, no, I cannot tell anyone about this. So it was either it, there was shame there or I was blaming myself or I thought it was my fault.

All of these things and it, all of that went on in my mind. And so I've had to work through all of this in my journey, which is why it's been a hell of a ride. Quite a ride and you bring in the word shame in. So I wonder if it would be a really good time to talk about shame, which can really couple with different emotions and just get stuck on.

And a lot of the work I'm doing on myself and with my clients and perhaps you can speak to how you work and move with it, is to directly look at the shame, first of all. ' cause that kind of opens the door to working with a lot of other suppressed emotions as well. The minute we uns shame things, it feels a little bit lighter and more accessible to look at, we'll speak about numbing out as well and the body be becoming numb because we've had to suppress so many emotions.

So could we open the conversation about shame and I dunno if it would be appropriate or not. But perhaps we can even bring in a little bit of our lineage because we've got, we've both got family coming from a similar location, and it seems to be a theme across the world, of course, but it can be really interwoven into religious beliefs as well.

Yeah. The door here. Yeah, so absolutely. I think the amount of people that come through my door and say I, this is something I've never told anybody before, because it was always frowned upon or it was always so disgusted to think that I could ever give myself like this to someone, or the fact that I've used to do this thing.

There might be something that they used to do to their body. Like even when they self pleasured, that was they were told, if you do that, you're gonna end up in hell or you're gonna end up doing this. And so there's been. Yeah, so much conditioning that we might have grown up with to the point where we've then been disgusted with ourselves.

And so then that shame spiral just gets planted as a seed. And then whenever we connect to that part of ourselves in the future, we then tell ourselves, oh my God, it's so wrong for me to do this or feel this, or to even think about this. And then we just completely and utterly shame ourselves and it just continues.

Yeah. It's so deeply ingrained. We don't eat, we can't even catch it sometimes. It's just, it's already in our DNA, it's been passed down through our ancestral line a lot of the time. And let me, I just wanted to just come into me just now because when I was really young, my mum told me about her sexual abuse and I was really young actually, and I remember her telling me about her sexual abuse.

And so when it happened to me, I remember thinking, like you said before, oh, this happened to my mum. This must be just what happens when you grow up. Wow. Wow. Because I'd, and then this is how generational patterns get in place. And so when I became a mum, I definitely had to work through fear of this happening to my daughter.

And it's been a huge part of my journey. The pattern stops here. This is where it stops. I'm not gonna let this sexual abuse go. It already goes back four. Five generations in my family line that I'm aware of. I'm not gonna let it continue, which is why. I think many, again, I'm sure you resonate with this as being the chosen ones too.

We are the chosen ones of the ancestral line to work through all of this stuff that we are working through. Cycle breakers. The cycle breakers. Yeah, that's the word I was thinking of. Yeah. And actually to be the cycle breaker is one hell of a fucking task, right? Isn't it? Isn't it such a privilege and an exhausting task?

Yeah. And although my daughter, like my, when I wrote my book, I remember writing in the front of it, like something like when my daughter eventually reads my book, which she can't read at this age of her life, that maybe she'll realize why mummy went through what she went through and why mummy had to go and do these things that she did.

Because actually I was doing it for you. But you don't realize that now, yeah. What an incredible, just recognize that for all the cycle breakers out there and carrie's a mum as well, is doing this work on herself and with clients. So do, you're doing it for the collective, you are doing it for your ancestral line as well and it's a really big job.

It is. It is huge. And we spoke a little bit before about sort of the things we are moving through and you spoke to really going into the shadows and the difficult of everyday life and doing the cycle breaking work and how you can hold the polarity. Like you said, you put your music on before and you were able to touch into joy and pleasure.

But I just wanted to say, because we were talking about shame. Yeah. This kind of links in with shame as well because . How many times, especially if you're not around people, that you can speak out about this stuff. So a lot of the time the shame becomes such a crippling thing within you because you've never shared your deepest wound or your deepest shadows with anybody before.

And that's why, creating circles, creating movements where women can be with women and they can really listen to each other without judgment, you start to realize that you are not the only person that feels this way and you're not the only person that is experiencing rawness and like things that will literally take your breath away because it's so intense.

And that when you start to normalize shame and speak about shame and speak about the things that keep you up at night, that's what sets it free. That's what sets it free. Simple, and it's, and if we don't speak about it and we keep it within and we keep on punishing ourselves almost with this constant barrage of whatever the story is you're telling yourself, that's what keeps it alive.

That's what keeps it burning. Because it needs to be set free. It wants to be set free, actually. But I think there's a part of you that is just normalized it because it's always been part of you. It's your pattern. And these things thrive in isolation, like you said, and bringing them out of you into safe spaces.

How would everyone's experience is so individual, but for your clients, maybe for your own experience. How does shame show up as thought patterns, actions, beliefs. What would be typical? I think, yeah, a lot of the time, especially around sexuality and anything that's linked in with pleasure and sexual kind of your experiences in sex or your own fantasies, desires, that's where a lot of shame comes up.

And so how it affects you is a lot of the time it can come into their thoughts when they're just on their own. Which is why a lot of people don't wanna sit with themselves on their own. So they'll do everything but sit with their thoughts. Because when they sit with their thoughts, then this stuff comes up and it's too much to sit with.

So instead they'll go and scroll on their phone, they will do whatever they wanna do, eat, exercise frantically anything. That's what I used to do in my journey. That's why I'm saying it all resonates. And I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that know what numbing means when you do everything but feel basically, I would say, and.

Because these thoughts, that's where it starts. It starts with what's coming into your own mind, but what, how that plays out in your life is it's all about then what happens when I look in the mirror? What happens when I put clothes on? What do I say to myself? Am I saying disgusting things to myself?

Am I thinking bad things to myself? And a lot of the time that if you went back with that thought, it will go back to a point in your life when you decided that I'm disgusting or I'm not worthy, or whatever. And that will go back to something that started that thought pattern. And then when you try to then relate with other people in the bedroom.

Yeah. With someone in intimacy when you are in a position where you're being seen by another or someone's asking you like what turns you on? What do you love? And then that part of you that might have that shame . Won't necessarily step forward and say. This is what I love.

This is what I want. Because you still feel disgusting. There's some part of you that goes, I'm not gonna be accepted by this other person. If I really be myself, if I really say what I desire. Because often our desires are not necessarily something that we want. Really want. But it might be something we just think about, yeah. And so I remember now when I started talking to my partner about all my wild and wacky desires, he nearly fell off his chair. Like he literally couldn't believe the stuff I was coming out with after 10 years of being with him. But because I really at that point, a journeyed with it myself, I was owning it.

I was like, this is what I want. And that is it. Like I wasn't like, but it doesn't mean you have to own it. Like you could still be like, I'm really embarrassed about saying this, but this is something that I feel like I'm turned on by the thought of this. And again, like I spoke about before, like when you lean into your shame, lean into your awkwardness, lean into the stuff that feels uncomfortable, it sets it free.

And first, it first though, you have to be comfortable with it yourself first. That was gonna be my next question. Yeah. Do you think that you had to work deeply with that in your Yeah. Experience before and Deep. Yeah. Sorry. And Deep Deeply could be just in your journal, like just to acknowledge that.

Actually in this mument in time, this is something I truly desire. And then if you wanna unpack it, you can unpack it a little bit more. Why? Why do I feel like this? And the same with shame. I feel really ashamed when I think about touching my body. Why do I feel ashamed when I think about touching my body?

Because it's wrong to touch my body. Like, why do, why is it wrong to touch my body? Do you know what I mean? You can keep going and keep inquiring as to where this comes from, because it will likely come from conditioning of some description or an event that happened in your life where you decided, this is what I'm gonna feel about myself.

The body is a sin. And also this complicated thing in my own experience of becoming a woman. Going from being a teenager to a woman and suddenly becoming objectified and having some power within that, but also having the fear of

it's like an uncontrollable thing. And sometimes you wanna walk down a dark street and just know that it's okay and not feel like the objective of desire and being, I speak to so much strength for women, but maybe physically sometimes we aren't the strong strongest one, and that leaves us vulnerable.

So we've got this dance between, I wanna connect with desire and feel pleasure, but when is it safe? When is it safe to do that? How do you work with clients or how have you worked with yourself to create that sense of safety Again, safety starts inside. Like I, I never knew that I didn't feel safe in my own body until I started to explore tantra and start to explore, touch in a way, in a sacred container.

So I hadn't found that safety within myself until I found myself in workshops where I was being invited to connect with another in clothed sacred touch. Not even like naked, sacred touch at the beginning to really understand what it felt like to receive love. So there's a point in my tantric goddess experiences that I do where I honor the goddess's body and I honor it through.

Words and through light touch, and I just connect with each part of the body and say what I see. And I remember when that happened to me for the first time and how much I just cried that there was this beautiful soul, in this case it was a man in front of me and he was honoring me and he was saying what he saw in me.

And the invitation was for me to receive his words and to receive his touch with not needing to, he wasn't trying to get anything from me. He was there to honor me. And it was at that point that I realized that I don't think I've ever really done that for myself self. I've never really looked at myself and honored me in what I see in front of the mirror.

And so if I don't feel safe in my own body to receive from myself love, then how am I able to receive love from another? And then the journey then was to go on, was to connect into what I did feel. So it wasn't about, oh, I've gotta find safety, I've gotta just breathe in safety. It's there's no point saying that because if it's, there is no, if there's a big fricking block up and saying, I ain't gonna receive this, then the first step is to acknowledge what is there?

And for me, I was numb from the waist down. And I knew that because every time I was connected, I knew that I didn't feel anything actually. And quite often with, when I've worked with people on all the programs I've run in the past and stuff I talk a lot about nothingness is everything. Wow.

That's powerful. Yeah. Because when you feel nothing, that's it. It still, there's so much in that nothingness. Yeah. Disconnection is feedback, isn't it? Yeah. And I think, and so the, that's how the body starts to feel safe is when you acknowledge what is there. You're not trying to get somewhere, but you're just acknowledging, actually, I don't like touching myself.

I don't like feeling When I touch myself here, I feel disgusting. I feel shame. I feel fear. Like just to acknowledge I feel nothing. Okay. And then maybe that might take weeks to work with nothing. Months, years. And I think this is where the tantra part comes in, where there was never, with tantra, it's not about a destination, it's about being with the energy of what is.

And so often I have clients come to me like, I just need to get this sorted. I just wanna move on. I just want to connect with my husband more. I just wanna know how I can do this like now. And it's yeah, I just wanna get rid of this feeling. That's what I get. Yeah. I wanna tick this off my list because I've got too much to do in my life.

And it's it don't work like that. And that's like the first part that I, that can take quite a lot to get your head around. And I was the same. I was the same. I thought, back in the day, I just wanna be healed and then realize there's no such thing as being healed. It's just a journey.

It's not a destination. Yeah. Yeah. I dunno if that answered your question. I went off on a tangent a little bit there. We definitely went into shadow work, didn't we? And you, you said right at the beginning when you went into reflexology working there and you slowed down and you were in silence, is when you started to connect with what was within you and.

One of the quotes that I use a lot with clients is the fast way is the slow way to, to heal in and to what? And with Gabor  or Mate, I think one of his quotes is, safety isn't the absence of a threat, but it's the presence of connection. And you literally said, even if I'm connecting with, I don't like this part of me, I, I am disgusted when I touch myself.

Which by the way, I a hundred percent embodied that. When I got with my, who's now my husband, who is very physically beautiful, I have to say. And he is from a different culture from me and no problem. Look in the mirror. And he says, oh, when you look in the mirror, what do you think? I said I don't look in the mirror and left her unless I have to brush my hair.

I'm not looking in the mirror. Why would I wanna look in the mirror? I don't want to see my body. I. And he is I don't understand. What do you mean you don't wanna see your own body? He was like very neutral about it. But there was definitely this disgust or rejection, complete rejection. And I can look in the mirror now and go, I feel a bit icky about this part of me today, and that's okay, but I can really connect with my eyes are truthful and there's a lot of love coming from my eyes and my face.

So we really, you really went into shadow work there, which I is just such so of the moment. We're so in the energy of shadow work. So can we give some, I think we've given some really good practical tools. You spoke about like journaling and mirror work. We just spoke about mirror work there as well.

If a client came to you, how would you invite them to look at the shadows or how can we do it collectively? The first step for me with anyone that I work with is to give them space to be heard. And so it's tell me everything. Tell me the stories, tell me the thoughts. Tell me all the things that are keeping you up at night.

Tell me that. Just tell me everything. And I think there's no ending to that. But actually the way that I work with clients is that I give them space for the story, give them space for the thoughts, give 'em space for the head staff basically. Because once that has a audience and once that has heard, then you can start to move into the body.

But first that needs some space. So I'd say the first step would always be to listen and acknowledge what is in the mind, not, and I, and that's why I can't stand when people go. Oh, I'm trying to think positively. Like I I'm, I hear these things and I say, no, don't think that, I need to think positive.

And I just, all you're doing is bypassing your own fucking thoughts. And so you need to feel and think and be with what is here. And if you are swimming around in your head at the mument with all the thoughts and all the stories and all the things, give that space, yeah, that's the first step. That is the first step to, to acknowledge what is there.

And you do that through lots of ways. You do that through speaking it out with someone. If you want support, you do that through journaling. I, one of my favorite things to do is to do a brain dump. I would call it, you get a big bit of paper and you literally just write it all out. Not in a sentence, almost like a spider gram, that you just chuck things on paper.

I used to do that all the time, like, where am I at right now? This, and the mean, the minute you do that again, it frees up some of the stuff that's going on in your head. I'm not on every, I do journal a little bit most days, a little piece, but I've never really been a big journaler for my whole life because I don't ever really feel like I want to, but then some days I do.

So I always give my clients lots of different ways to lean in and to think and to feel, because I don't think you have to do something every day religiously if that's not what you wanna do. Work with what you wanna work with. So you might be really helpful for you just to speak it out.

Yeah. I feel this, I feel that rah. In your own space or with someone else. Or it might be really useful for you to brain dump. Yeah. Or it might be useful for you to journal. What will support you to get this out, to feel it, to think about it, to be with it? I think hearing you and hearing other people say their truths, like somebody might look at you or me and think, they're totally okay with themselves because they're in the world of somatics or trauma or tantra.

But we are human. The human experience is to hold so many different emotions and our work is to be in compassionate, , relationship with them. Yeah, so we saw our shadows, right? They're always, gosh, I was crying my eyes out to you before we even started this. So there's, I, for me I feel stuff so deeply now and there are many moments I've had in my journey where I think, oh my gosh, what would it be like to be numb again?

Like I was like, some days it's so tough of what I'm journeying with that I think, oh, I just wanna be numb for one day and just to be like that again because it's easier not to feel. But I also remind myself that, when I feel the stuff that's uncomfortable. It means it opens up to more of my pleasure, more of my expansiveness, and it works together.

The heaviness brings more. When you release more heaviness, it feel more heaviness. It brings more lightness. It works together in unison. It's not one without the other. It's a continuum. If you didn't know how it was to feel rawness, you wouldn't know how it feels to be fricking orgasmic and ecstatic. You wouldn't feel the difference If we were like that all the time, it wouldn't be no, no polarity, so that leads us onto, we've had some questions from our audience, from our beautiful tribe. And generally we work with, , predominantly women are around the age of the perimenopause, so it could be 35 to, to 50 and beyond. And their lives are really busy. Like we are so stretched. Our capacity is so full at the moment.

And these women they're spiritually connected. They're in a holistic health world and they want to love deeply and deep relationships, but they're struggling. We've had a question that says, I wanna connect with my partner on an intimate level



how do I do that when I feel disconnected from my own body, when I feel when we are not even sleeping in the same beds at the mument, because we might be going through menopause symptoms.

There might be somebody snoring. , How can we connect on a deeper level with our partner? It all starts with you. Simple as that. It starts with a journey with you. And it doesn't mean you've gotta ignore your partner while she work on you, but again you make space for yourself. You make space to be with what is with you first.

It's always about what's with you first. And then when you connect with your partner, you are able to open up a space where you can both be honest about what's really alive. Not, oh, we just need to have sex. We've not had sex for ages. That's the truth. Yeah. But then feed into, actually, when I feel into having sex with you, this is what I feel like giving space for them to say what they feel like and really try not to project.

You make me feel like this because you don't make love to me anymore. Like more than more. I, when I field into making love, I really miss our connection. And when I think about you and I think about how we used to make love, I feel sad, I feel this. And then give space for your partner to say how they feel and if it's a male female type relationship, they, the man may say things really differently.

Yeah, I really miss, I just really miss doing it. Yeah. It might not be all massively emotive, depending if they're in connected with their feminine or depends on where you're at. You might be the same. I just wanna have sex, like I really need sex. And then the other partner might be like, but when I hear that energy, I don't feel like I wanna have sex with you.

'cause I don't wanna have sex with someone that just wants sex. Again, it's no right or wrong. It's about can we give space to what is actually true? So when I, my couples calls that I have online, like the first few weeks, it's all about how can I connect intimately outside of the bedroom? 'cause quite often there's this real pressure to be intimate in the bedroom.

Yet outside of the bedroom, you're not even asking each other how your day's been. Like, you're not even acknowledging that the other person is a bit stressed at the mument, might need something. You're not creating space for each other outside of the bedroom to connecting to you both as humans. And if that's not there, then how do you expect to take your clothes off and get intimate with each other?

So there's two parts to it. There's this part that's why you, the part for you matters first, because what's the point of going into a conversation with your partner if you don't know what you need or you don't know how you feel? Because it's never to do with them The reason why you're not having sex.

It's you're both individual people. What's going on with you, both as individuals, and then you can speak about what happens to us as a couple. But you have to have that awareness first. If you want to connect in a really deep and profound way. And sometimes it's not even about words. Sometimes it's about just being present.

You could both just sit there with each other and be, and see what happens. So me and Mark quite often, if we get into that eh, with each other, we'll go to bed. We'll just laid to bed. We'll look at each other in the eyes. We both just start crying quite often. Because yes, life is busy. Life's going on and both just sit there and both just cry.

We don't even necessarily speak. Might just hold each other's hands and just, I might just snuggle into him. Sometimes there's no words and sometimes there's loads of words. But when you get that intimacy with each other, that's what then becomes making love, so I'm hearing the best investment you can make is in a relationship with yourself, and then you'll see all the other relationships reflect that deep connection that you've got with yourself.

Or even if there's not a deep connection, like it's okay to acknowledge that. I'm feeling really disconnected at the mument, like the complete opposite to that. Like you don't have to be fixed until you go into this conversation with your partner. Can you go into a conversation with your partner? With a view of, I'm feeling disgusting at the mument.

I'm journeying with some shame. I've got this stuff coming up. I'm feeling really horrible in my body because I've not had a period for months, or I'm bleeding right now and I'm feeling really sensitive, or whatever it is. Can you just be with what is, it's not about being, I'm really deeply connected. It could be I'm not connected.

Yeah. Truth.

I'm gonna switch the conversation light slightly. Yeah. To kinks. Oh, kinks. So we had a question. How can a woman tell the difference between a kink that is a healthy self-expression and a kink that might be pointing towards like an unresolved wound? So I guess like dominance of submission. How can you see these through the lens of tantra or even, shamanic lens.

I guess there's something about, I don't know, surrender and to avoid shaming ourselves with what we want with desires. Could you speak to any of that? Yeah, I spoke a little bit to this earlier and in, in the truth of it all is that there is no right or wrong again, right? So if you're trying to micromanage, oh, what is this I desire, this is this is it that should I be doing this?

Should I be doing that? Then you're in your head. Yeah. So what I would ask first is what is the desire? Yeah. How does it make me feel when I feel into this desire? Does it make me feel contracted? Does it make me feel expansive and then sit with whatever that is? So if there's a contraction. Just journeying with what's the contraction?

Yeah. I've been in many spaces where women who have been sexually assaulted, for instance, and me included, have wanted to journey with what it's like to be sexually assaulted. And that might sound really out there, as a concept. And I'm saying this because I just wanna normalize something that I've journeyed with, that I've been sexually sorted in a way that did not feel empowered.

But then when I went into a space where I was able to act out fantasy, I act out a fantasy of someone dominating me, but in a view that I could stop it at any point and a view that I could say exactly how I wanted that to happen. And in that moment, I reclaimed my power from my sexual assault. , That's 'cause I did it in a safe space. And that might sound really weird for people. They're like, how could she want that to ha I wanted it to happen because I wanted to reclaim. So sometimes our fantasies might come from a wound or from something that's happened to us, but why do we wanna replay it?

And I, there, I remember the mument I shared it, I, I remember the mument where I said to someone that this is because I we got asked to really, truly go into what was the thing that came up. And I was with these, I think it was two other people, and I said, I feel really ashamed to say this, but I, this is what I'd like to do.

And it was the most phenomenal experience for me to do that. Wow. And it. Alchemized my previous experience by experiencing that. But I did that in a, so when you go into a tantric kink scenario, and for many people they might not even know about this. So I think it's really important for me to speak to this.

When you go into a kink, and I've been to many BDSM kind of kink environments, when you go into a scene we would call it, you very much speak about what it is you want. You would go in and you would talk to the people involved and you would say, this is what I would like. And then they would say whether they're open to doing that for you, they would talk about what's coming up for them, what they're open to, what they're not open to.

You would then go into a container where you played that out over a, there'd be like 10 minute, 15 minute container or something. And then I would play that out in that mument. And I would know, my safe word would be whatever or a signal, a safe word. And if I wanted to stop at any point, I would say that word and it would stop that mument.

And that was it. And I remember being in, oh, I've been in many situations where I've played out different fantasies, different things. Like I've played out a scenario where I. I always had this fantasy of being in a lift, and the lift like stopped working and I was in this lift with these two people, and then slowly they just started un taking my clothes off and all that.

I, I played that out. It was fucking amazing. And I was like, oh my God. It was, and it wasn't, I wasn't having sex with anyone. It was all done. It was like they were kissing me and we were kissing each other and stuff like that, but it wasn't like we weren't having full on sex or anything, but it was still like, wow.

I felt like I've lived it. I feel like I've done that fantasy now. How awesome to be able to have that experience. But this is what, when we talk about kink, yeah. There is no bad kink. There is no bad fantasy. But if you want to experience something with your partner, they may not want to do that. And that doesn't mean that it's wrong.

It just means that's where they are. They are. Not every single person's gonna be into what you're into. And all the people that I asked to be involved in this weren't necessarily into that, but they were able to honor me in that because they were open to me experiencing that. So if you have a kink or you have something you wanna share, again, it's about can you really own that, that is your kink, regardless of what your partner's gonna say.

' cause the reaction might be you are weird. I've done all sorts and I've wrote a big chapter in my book, like later on in my book about this because it was like, if people are gonna invest in my book, then by the time they read it at the end, they can get to the juicy bits of all the things I've experienced, Harry, to read your book.

But do you understand what I'm saying about this? It's not about it's not about right or wrong. It's about being in a safe container where you can own your. Sexuality. You can own what your desires are and know that it may not be possible with that particular partner, but maybe it's something you can still speak about.

'cause quite often the energy behind a fantasy or a desire, once it's spoken out, might diffuse like that. That's happened to me loads of times. I spoke it out and then I don't really feel it anymore. Or I spoke out and then I want it more, but either way, can you still speak about it and just own it anyway, regardless of whether you can make it happen that mument.

Yeah. So being able to touch in with your own personal desires, whether you see them as shadow or not. Will you just say that the wound is the opening? Where more love needs to go in the wound is your teacher? This is a thing. It's so when we start saying the words like, should. Or if, or could I or hesitate in.

It's not it's your own self stopping you from owning something and there was always gonna be a wound that will lead you into something. And like I always thought I wanted to be in polyamorous relationships, open relating. I did that, I journeyed with that. And then I decided actually for now, I don't wanna be in that type of relationship, but I'm also open to the fact that could change in a few months and I might wanna do it again.

And then I'll have to have that conversation again with Mark. Like nothing is stuck, everything is energy. So can you be with what is here now and just own it for yourself first, and then if you're brave enough, maybe say it out loud, to someone. And trust in yourself so much that it's like making it okay.

Like I might, the idea of titration, like I'll go into a comfortable space and then I'll look at something that's edgy. And if I get there and I decide, not right now, this is too much, or actually I want to go deeper, or I want to go in this direction and letting yourself do it. Not, yeah. So like when I talked about and I'm feeling, I'm just wanna acknowledge that I'm feeling a little bit a little bit vulnerable that I shared that about wanting to play out the assault thing in my, in the thing.

And the reason I'm feeling vulnerable about it is because it's like, it isn't normal every day to say those sorts of things. And also I did that with being fully clothed with people. Like I didn't do it by, they weren't entering me, they weren't, but the energy behind that felt as if I was doing that again.

It felt the same. It like, so you don't have to. Fulfill these in their entirety, like energetically. I went into that wanting to reclaim it in a way that felt safe in that mument. In that mument. I wanted everyone to be fully clothed. I wanted everyone to say these certain words, nothing else. I wanted someone to do this, someone to do that.

It wasn't about redoing the whole entire thing, but it was about doing something in a way that felt safe for me. Thank you for sharing that. 'cause we can be all or nothing, can't we? We can be so black on white. If I'm gonna do it, I have to do it this way. But like you just said, like I got to experience it out and I'll share as well.

I have spoken to my partner about spanking and it was something, as a child, I experienced that physical. Hitting striking. And part of me wanted to own it and saying, I get to choose now. I get to choose this experience. And my partner said, no, I don't think I could do that to you. I don't want to.

So I got to speak my desires and he got to speak what was right for him. And that's just something, it's not the end of the conversation, it's just something that's still there. I'm exploring and it's moved it on a bit, hasn't it? So to the point where you've acknowledged, you've said something, he said it's not felt comfortable for him.

And like you say, it's not the end of the conversation. And even a topic of spanking, like there's so many different ways to spank. There's the hand, there's a whip, there's different types of whips. There's all, I went to a workshop once where. You got to experience all different types of spanking.

It went on for a whole two hour workshop and there were some things I loved, some things I didn't love, but there's so many ways to explore this in a way that is safe. And like you say, having the conversation is where it begins. And also knowing that it's okay if your partner's a no.

Yeah. Yeah. Because a no, and this is something I tell my clients all the time. A no is a yes to yourself. Oh, and tell us more about that. So if your partner says no, or you say no, you're saying yes to yourself. You are honoring your needs. And so often in relationships, and again, I think this is a massive piece of conditioning that so many of us, especially women, I would say, have allowed.

Yourself to be, just lay back and think of England, that scenario where you just lay there and you think, I've just gotta allow this because I'm with my partner, he wants to have sex, so I'm gonna let him have sex with me. Literally have sex with me and then he'll be happy I would've endured it or been all right, maybe I got a bit of pleasure out of it and that's it.

But actually maybe there's been so many times where I can tell Mark really wants to have sex. I can tell that he really it's almost like he needs that release. And I've told him, I said, there is nothing more unattractive than you wanting me because you need a release like this. And I said I'm a no to that.

I'm a no to you just wanting me for that reason. And I feel good about that. No. I'm like, I ain't doing that. Because it's a collaborative experience. Exactly. And sometimes your yoni Yeah. Is a no to penetration. It's I don't want to be penetrated. You ain't gotta fucking justify why. I just don't want to.

That's it. Thank you. And so often, me and Mark, so I was say, so often me and Mark make love and we do not penetrate. We just don't. And it's the most beautiful experience because I'm honoring my needs. He's honoring his needs. And again, it's that black and white thing. I wanna connect with my partner.

Therefore we should have penetrative sex. There's, we are missing so much. We are missing. Oh yeah. Or we should do what we've always done. So what we've done is he does this to me. I do that to him. We then have sex. He then comes, I might come later, or I might come, then he might come. It's like guys.

There's a whole world out there. There's loads of parts of your bodies to explore. And I remember when I had some internal, I dunno what it was like a cervical cancer thing I had years ago, and I couldn't have sex for six weeks. And I remember it being like devastated. Oh my gosh, how am I gonna cope for six weeks about sex?

And then we ha we, oh my God, we had the most amazing time in that six weeks. We found lots of other ways to explore without penetration. And that opened up a whole new realm for us. Beautiful. Kerry, thank you so much for your honesty, your experiences. Your energy has been Yeah I feel like we could just talk for years on this subject.

So much. It's such a big topic. Such a big topic. Where can listeners experience more of your work? Yeah, so you can, you can come to my Instagram, Kerry o Sullivan Goddess my website, Kerry o sullivan.co uk and I've got lots of courses and different things you can experience. Lots more things in the pipeline.

And I've got a podcast called Raw and Unedited, which only started a few weeks ago. But I'm excited 'cause I'm gonna be exploring lots of topics like we've been talking about today. Because as you've just alluded to, there was just so much to speak about and I feel like we've not even scratched the surface today, really.

Oh, not at all. But thank you for opening the conversation and please go and listen to Kerry's podcast and check her out. Put everything in the show notes. I was listening to Kerry on the plane back from Spain, and she was singing on her podcast, and I could just feel your energy and it was like moving around my heart.

So like getting Kerry's world. Yeah. And my book obviously my book's probably a good place to start for most people that come into my world. A lot of them read my book first because they, you get a sense of my journey and that I'm not just someone who's just rocking up with this.

I'm really speaking from an embodied place of going through my own trauma, continuing to work on my trauma and how that's opened me out to more. Of life basically from leaning into that and journeying with that. So listen, whoever's listening, ladies or beautiful humans, gift yourself for Christmas, gift yourself the book.

And yeah, the more that we all do this work for ourselves, it just, it's more than just for ourselves. It really is connecting us all of us humans on a much deeper level. And we all carry pain and wounds and we all carry desires and they're connected, right? We can access those desires and those pleasures and that sort of sense of freedom and liberation when we can turn to those shadows and kinks with curiosity and compassion.

So hopefully move people a little bit closer. . Kerry, I hope, , it's okay to say if anyone wants to reach out to you personally, you've signposted them to Instagrams or dms. And if we, if anyone wants us to go deeper on these subjects or, , yeah, just reach out to us and we would love to support you deeper.

So thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Bye bye.    Thank you a million times, Ava, for joining us on this podcast episode. You can support the show by giving us a follow on any podcast platform you're listening to this on. If you already follow us, then thank you so much and maybe share this episode. If you think of someone, someone comes to mind where you think they'd really benefit from listening to this.

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